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Darwin Correspondence Project

From J. B. Saint-Lager1   30 January 1877

Lyon

30 janvier 1877

Monsieur et illustre Maître,

Mon ami Mr. Mulsant m’a communiqué la lettre par laquelle vous demandez un article de Mr. Magnin sur l’hétérostylie chez les Primulacées, publié dans nos Annales.2

Bienque l’article demandé ne soit qu’une simple note ne correspondant pas aux espérances que le titre a pu vous faire concevoir, je vous envoie les années 2 et 3 de nos Annales, regrettant de n’avoir plus d’exemplaire disponible de la 1ere année.3

J’ai remis à notre Collègue Mr Grenier de Tenay un exemplaire de la 4e année No 1 de nos Annales, pour vous être envoyé, et je pense qu’il vous est parvenu.4 Vous y trouverez un extrait de votre admirable ouvrage insectivorous plants dont la lecture a vivement intéressé nos Collègues, même ceux d’entre eux qui ne partagent pas vos opinions; j’ai le regret d’ajouter que je suis au nombre de ces derniers.5

Je ne conteste pas que le suc visqueux excrété par les Drosera, et probablement par beaucoup d’autres plantes, ne facilite une décomposition des substances animales, à l’instar des sucs digestifs contenus dans l’estomac des animaux. Mais je crois qu’on peut faire vivre de la manière la plus prospère des Drosera qu’on aurait soin de préserver de toute approche d’insectes et que, par conséquent, ces plantes vivent, comme toutes les autres, des éléments empruntés au sol et à l’aïr.

Mr. Grenier dit à la fin de son mémoire que vous pensez que la meilleure démonstration à l’appui de votre doctrine consisterait à cultiver deux lots de plantes à l’un desquels on fournirait des insectes.6 Il me semble que cette expérience n’aurait pas la portée que vous lui attribuez; car il n’y aurait rien d’étonnant à ce que des plantes qui ont été soumises aux émanations résultant de la décomposition de matières animales reçoivent un surcroît d’activité, comme il arriverait par l’emploi d’un fumier riche en matières azotées.

Je crois donc que l’utilité des sucs visqueux des plantes, si toutefois elle est réelle, n’est pas encore connue, malgré vos très-intéressantes recherches, et je persiste à penser que les plantes ne vivent que de substances minérales. Les matières organiques ne sont utiles aux plantes qu’autant qu’elles sont réduites, par une décomposition avancée, à l’état d’éléments minéraux.

Le Végétal a pour rôle dans la nature de fabriquer des produits organiques et, comme je le dis dans un article sur l’influence chimique du sol, ce serait un cercle vicieux et une véritable anarchie s’il fallait qu’il trouve des substances organiques déjà faites pour en produire lui-même.7

Je vous prie d’excuser la liberté que je prends de vous adresser mes observations, sans avoir pu y être invité par vous et malgré mon peu d’autorité. Croyez d’ailleurs à mes sentiments de vive et profonde admiration. | St Lager

Lyon 8 cours de Brosses.

Footnotes

For a translation of this letter, see Appendix I.
CD’s letter to Étienne Mulsant has not been found. Antoine Magnin’s short article ‘Sur l’hétérostylie chez les Primulacées’ (On heterostyly in the Primulaceae; Magnin 1875) was published in the third volume of Annales de la Société botanique de Lyon.
No copies of the journal have been found in the Darwin Archive–CUL.
CD gave Louis Grenier permission to summarise Insectivorous plants in the Annales de la Société botanique de Lyon (see Correspondence vol. 23, letter from Louis Grenier, 22 December 1875, and Correspondence vol. 24, letter from Louis Grenier, 20 May 1876). Grenier’s article was read at a meeting of the society on 10 February 1876 and published in Annales de la Société botanique de Lyon 4 (1875–6): 96–114 (Grenier 1876). The article has not been found in the Darwin Archive–CUL.
Grenier translated CD’s description of the leaves of Drosera rotundifolia (common sundew) from Insectivorous plants, pp. 4–5 (Grenier 1876, pp. 97–8).
Grenier had written to CD asking whether CD had new observations on insectivorous plants and whether CD’s theory could be tested by growing plants in a sealed container (see Correspondence vol. 24, letter from Louis Grenier, 20 May 1876 and nn. 2 and 5). CD evidently responded in a now missing letter that a set of plants cultivated under fine netting to protect them from insects could be compared to another set exposed to insects in order to determine whether the latter set was more vigorous. Grenier presented the additional material to the botanical society on 27 July 1876, and it was added to the published version of his original resumé (see Grenier 1876, p. 114; see also Annales de la Société botanique de Lyon 4 (1875–6): 185).
See Saint-Lager 1876, p. 78.

Bibliography

Correspondence: The correspondence of Charles Darwin. Edited by Frederick Burkhardt et al. 29 vols to date. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. 1985–.

Grenier, Louis. 1876. Analyse de l’ouvrage de M. Ch. Darwin sur les plantes insectivores. [Read 10 February 1876.] Annales de la Société botanique de Lyon 4 (1875–6): 96–114.

Insectivorous plants. By Charles Darwin. London: John Murray. 1875.

Magnin, Antoine. 1875. Sur l’hétérostylie chez les Primulacées. [Read 1 April 1875.] Annales de la Société botanique de Lyon 3 (1874–5): 65–7.

Saint-Lager, Jean Baptiste. 1876. Étude de l’influence chimique exercée par le sol sur les plantes. [Read 13 January 1876.] Annales de la Société botanique de Lyon 4 (1875–6): 50–84.

Translation

From J. B. Saint-Lager1   30 January 1877

Lyon

30 January 1877

Sir and illustrious master,

My friend Mr. Mulsant has passed on your letter requesting an article by Mr. Magnin on hétérostylie chez les Primulacées, published in our Annales.2

Although the article requested is only a simple note that does not live up to what the title may have led you to expect, I am sending you the years 2 and 3 of our Annales, with regrets that no more copies of the first year remain.3

I have sent our colleague Mr Grenier of Tenay a copy of the 4th year No 1 of our Annales, to have forwarded to you, and I think it arrived.4 You will find in it an extract from your admirable work insectivorous plants the reading of which has greatly interested our colleagues, even among those who do not share your views; I regret to add that I am among them.5

I do not argue that the viscous sap excreted by Droseras, and probably by many other plants, does not promote a decomposition of animal substances, in the manner of the digestive juices contained in the stomachs of animals. But I believe that Drosera that have been protected from all insects can be made to thrive most favourably and that, it follows, these plants live, like all others, on elements taken from the sun and air.

Mr. Grenier says at the end of his note that you think the best demonstration in support of your doctrine would be to cultivate two sets of plants one of which would be supplied with insects.6 It seems to me that this experiment would not have the significance that you attribute to it; for there would be nothing surprising in plants which had been subjected to the products of decomposition of animal material getting an increase in activity, since it would result from the use of a manure rich in nitrogen.

I believe therefore that the utility of the viscous saps of plants, even if it is real, is not yet known, in spite of your very interesting research, and I continue to think that plants only live on mineral substances. Organic substances are of no use to plants unless they are reduced, by advanced decomposition, to the state of mineral elements.

The role of the plant kingdom in nature is to make organic products and, as I have said in an article on the chemical influence of the soil, it would be a vicious circle and veritable anarchy if it was necessary to find organic substances already made in order to produce the same.7

Please forgive the liberty I take in telling you my observations, without having been asked and in spite of my meagre authority. Please believe moreover in my keen and profound admiration. | St Lager

Lyon 8 cours de Brosses.

Footnotes

For a transcription of this letter in its original French, see Transcript.
CD’s letter to Étienne Mulsant has not been found. Antoine Magnin’s short article ‘Sur l’hétérostylie chez les Primulacées’ (On heterostyly in the Primulaceae; Magnin 1875) was published in the third volume of Annales de la Société botanique de Lyon.
No copies of the journal have been found in the Darwin Archive–CUL.
CD gave Louis Grenier permission to summarise Insectivorous plants in the Annales de la Société botanique de Lyon (see Correspondence vol. 23, letter from Louis Grenier, 22 December 1875, and Correspondence vol. 24, letter from Louis Grenier, 20 May 1876). Grenier’s article was read at a meeting of the society on 10 February 1876 and published in Annales de la Société botanique de Lyon 4 (1875–6): 96–114 (Grenier 1876). The article has not been found in the Darwin Archive–CUL.
Grenier translated CD’s description of the leaves of Drosera rotundifolia (common sundew) from Insectivorous plants, pp. 4–5 (Grenier 1876, pp. 97–8).
Grenier had written to CD asking whether CD had new observations on insectivorous plants and whether CD’s theory could be tested by growing plants in a sealed container (see Correspondence vol. 24, letter from Louis Grenier, 20 May 1876 and nn. 2 and 5). CD evidently responded in a now missing letter that a set of plants cultivated under fine netting to protect them from insects could be compared to another set exposed to insects in order to determine whether the latter set was more vigorous. Grenier presented the additional material to the botanical society on 27 July 1876, and it was added to the published version of his original resumé (see Grenier 1876, p. 114; see also Annales de la Société botanique de Lyon 4 (1875–6): 185).
See Saint-Lager 1876, p. 78.

Bibliography

Correspondence: The correspondence of Charles Darwin. Edited by Frederick Burkhardt et al. 29 vols to date. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. 1985–.

Grenier, Louis. 1876. Analyse de l’ouvrage de M. Ch. Darwin sur les plantes insectivores. [Read 10 February 1876.] Annales de la Société botanique de Lyon 4 (1875–6): 96–114.

Insectivorous plants. By Charles Darwin. London: John Murray. 1875.

Magnin, Antoine. 1875. Sur l’hétérostylie chez les Primulacées. [Read 1 April 1875.] Annales de la Société botanique de Lyon 3 (1874–5): 65–7.

Saint-Lager, Jean Baptiste. 1876. Étude de l’influence chimique exercée par le sol sur les plantes. [Read 13 January 1876.] Annales de la Société botanique de Lyon 4 (1875–6): 50–84.

Summary

Sends CD parts of the Annales [Soc. Bot. Lyon] in response to his request for a particular article.

States that, despite CD’s work, he does not believe that any plants, including insectivorous ones, can utilise organic material, and that they live solely on mineral elements in the soil and air.

Letter details

Letter no.
DCP-LETT-10820
From
Jean Baptiste Saint-Lager
To
Charles Robert Darwin
Sent from
Lyons
Source of text
DAR 177: 7
Physical description
ALS 4pp (French)

Please cite as

Darwin Correspondence Project, “Letter no. 10820,” accessed on 19 April 2024, https://www.darwinproject.ac.uk/letter/?docId=letters/DCP-LETT-10820.xml

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